Kelly Hooker - May's Real Time Reading

[00:00] Cindy: Welcome to Thoughts from a Page, a member of the Evergreen Podcasts Network. I'm Cindy Burnett, and I am so glad you're here. I personally select and read every book featured on the show so I can bring you thoughtful spoiler-free author interviews.

[00:24] Whether you're deciding what to read next or looking for deeper insight after finishing a book, you're in the right place. I hope these conversations will enrich your reading life. In addition to the podcast, I write a monthly column, Buzz Reads, featuring my top five picks for each month which is linked in the Show Notes.

[00:39] If you're looking for the best books to read this summer, don't miss my Summer Reading Guide, also linked in the Show Notes. If you enjoy the show, rating and reviewing it on Apple or Spotify really helps new listeners find me.

[00:51] If you're looking to contribute to the show financially, you can support me on Patreon or with a one-time contribution on PayPal Venmo or buy me a coffee. It takes a long time to grow a show and I continue to find a larger audience thanks to you, my loyal listeners.

[01:05] I am so grateful.

[01:05] Today, Kelly Hooker is here for May's Real Time Reading. As always, we talk about what we've read recently,

[01:11] what's coming up soon for us, what's come in the mail, what's worked and what hasn't worked. We also talk this month about our summer reading guides which just came out.

[01:20] Both of them are linked in the Show Notes if you're interested in checking them out. I hope you enjoy our conversation.

[01:28] Welcome Kelly. How are you today?

[01:29] Kelly: I am doing well. How are you Cindy?

[01:32] Cindy : I'm doing well and I'm really looking forward to May's Real Time Reading. These are such fun conversations.

[01:37] Kelly: Yes. Especially this time of year. Things are getting wild in our reading life. Like this is crunch time.

[01:43] Cindy : It really is crunch time with summer reading guides trying to get them out the door.

[01:47] We are both power-reading to get the best books we can onto our guides.

[01:52] Kelly: That's the best kind of power.

[01:54] Cindy : It really is. That's the fun kind of power.

[01:56] Kelly: Yes, yes, exactly.

[01:58] Cindy : How is your May going?

[02:00] Kelly: It's busy. They say Maysember. If you know that term. I feel like I've been hearing that the last few years. Like it's as busy as December with all of the stuff at the end of the year and things like that and I am excited for things to slow down maybe just a little bit.

[02:13] Cindy : I hear you on our end with everybody getting out of school, coming home from college, getting transported wherever they need to be, it's been a little hectic, so I'm ready for things to settle down too.

[02:23] Kelly: Yes, I want to sit outside and read in the peace of the day.

[02:26] Cindy : Exactly.

[02:27] Kelly: Yes.

[02:27] Cindy : And I am coming up on the fifth anniversary of my podcast, which I can't even believe.

[02:33] It's just crazy to think it's been that long. And I did a post about it and I had so many wonderful responses. I just love my listeners. They are all delightful.

[02:42] Kelly: It's so amazing how books can connect people together from across the country and just how many doors this podcast has opened for you and for me too. I'm just so grateful to be a part of it.

[02:55] Cindy : I'm so grateful that you're a part as well. And many people were commenting how much they loved your episodes.

[03:00] Kelly: That's so fun.

[03:02] Cindy : Well, what have you read recently?

[03:03] Kelly: The last book I read is called the Grand Paloma Resort by Cleyvis Natera, and this comes out August 12th.

[03:10] This is a literary suspense novel that contrasts this stark divide between the wealthy tourists that are vacationing in the Dominican Republic and then the locals who keep that industry afloat.

[03:23] So despite the beachy cover, this is not a beach read at all. There was a few reviews that were like, this is not what I was expecting,

[03:29] and I get that. But this is a really fantastic mystery slash social commentary.

[03:37] Beneath the glittering beaches and luxury resorts lies a darker reality of corruption and exploitation of the land and the people. So the story centers around Laura, and she is a driven resort employee.

[03:51] She's a local, and she is willing to do really whatever it takes to rise above her circumstances.

[03:57] And then we have her younger sister Elena, who finds herself caught in a desperate and very dangerous situation.

[04:05] So interwoven with this mystery and suspense,

[04:09] there is a deeper exploration of the Dominican Republic's complex history, which I didn't know much about,

[04:16] and also the relationship that the Dominicans have with Haitians,

[04:21] who are often seen and treated as the underclass.

[04:24] And that was new history to me as well. Like I mentioned, this book is a mystery, but it's more so a suspenseful social commentary.

[04:32] It's dark, but it's so engaging. I can't even think of a good comp for this book because it was really unique and layered. It's a story of survival, ambition and sisterhood, and it really looks at what people sacrifice to change their lives and what they risk losing in the process.

[04:49] That was the Grand Paloma Resort by Cleyvis Natera, and it comes out August 12th.

[04:53] Cindy :

[04:54] so I'm so glad that you enjoyed this one.

[04:56] We were communicating while you were reading it, and you were talking about how enthralling it was, and that is awesome.

[05:01] And I'm wondering about the comp of White Lotus, and I'll say I kind of say that in a bit of a loaded way, because I feel like every other book I get right now is comped to White Lotus.

[05:11] Recently, Kristyn Kusek Lewis, who writes the Real Simple Monthly Book Club Picks,

[05:17] had a thread where she was talking about how she was so tired of every book coming with that comp for it. And I agree. But this sounds like it actually is the perfect comp for that.

[05:28] Kelly: Well, this is the thing about me. I don't watch much tv.

[05:31] Cindy : I know. So I know. I was realizing Kelly's gonna be like, I have no idea.

[05:35] Kelly: I guess I'll ask. Is White Lotus dark or is it more frothy?

[05:40] Cindy : Oh, no, it's definitely dark.

[05:41] Kelly: Oh, okay, then.

[05:43] Then, sure. I was thinking White Lotus was like, rich people behaving badly. We're on our yacht, La Ti da. But if it is dark,

[05:51] then I think that might be correct.

[05:54] Cindy : It's rich people behaving badly, but it's definitely dark. And the families all have so many dramatic problems that are often dark. And it's hard for me to watch because they're all so unlikable.

[06:05] And then it's often dealing with the people staying at whichever resort they've picked for the season and the locals and the distinctions and how that functions and how it impacts the community.

[06:16] So it just makes me think, gosh, there's a lot there that could overlap.

[06:20] Kelly: Okay, in that case, then, yes, this is dark. And it's interesting, too. Some of the chapters in the Grand Paloma Resort are told from a Greek chorus. So like the collective we of the island resort employees.

[06:36] So I thought that was interesting too. You just really get this insider's perspective to the locals.

[06:41] Cindy : Oh, I love that. I love the Greek chorus when it's used like that. The Mothers by Brit Bennett uses that format or trope. I'm not sure what you would call it, but I love that.

[06:50] That voice.

[06:52] Kelly: Yes, definitely. Well, what is the last read that you read?

[06:55] Cindy : The last read that I read was Tilt by Emma Pattee.

[07:00] And Annie is nine months pregnant and shopping for a crib at Ikea when a massive earthquake hits Portland, Oregon. With no way to reach her husband, no phone or money, and a city left in chaos, she realizes there's nothing to do but walk,

[07:13] making her way across the wreckage of Portland, Annie experiences human desperation and kindness,

[07:18] strangers offering help, a riot at a grocery store, and an unlikely friendship with a young mother.

[07:23] As she walks, Annie reflects on her struggling marriage, her disappointing career, and her anxiety about having a baby. She's determined to change her life if she can make it home.

[07:33] This was the March number one Indie Next pick, which means that for March, booksellers around the country thought this was the number one book coming out and on their list.

[07:41] The list each month has a number one pick and then 19 more picks that aren't ranked. And this was number one for March. It had not really been on my radar and I know, Kelly, you have thoughts about this one, but I am in several book clubs here and one of them picked it and it's my book club that does a fabulous deep dive.

[07:58] Every book we read we spend over an hour talking about. It's really interesting and this was such a good book club selection. There is so much to talk about.

[08:08] She tackles a lot, as they mentioned above, climate change, pregnancy,

[08:13] reflecting on your life, and then this earthquake that hits Portland. In her book is one that is predicted to hit Portland and that whole region in the next 50 to 60 years.

[08:23] So that was interesting as well. I mean we had the best conversation about this book. I will say that we rate the books on a scale of 1 to 10 and this one fell between 6 and 8.

[08:33] So it wasn't like everybody thought it was the best book they'd ever read and the ending is a bit abrupt. I was aware of that because you had told me, Kelly, which helped me,

[08:40] but also I don't know how else she would have ended it. I think with this type of story you're never going to have a pat ending or everything wrapped up.

[08:48] So I actually thought the ending fit the book really well. But again, it was super thought provoking,

[08:53] really interesting. Not a book that I'm going to be like, everybody should read this book because I just loved it. But more everybody should read this book because it's one interesting way of looking at what's coming.

[09:03] And that is Tilt by Emma Pattee.

[09:06] Kelly: I think this is one of those books that even if it's not your favorite read,

[09:10] that it could still make for an incredible book club discussion like you mentioned. I think that there is so much to unpack here and I really would have enjoyed talking through this with somebody else and I really was engaged the entire book.

[09:23] My only qualm was that it felt abrupt and I was reading it on my Kindle and I really didn't have a sense in where I was in the book. And then all of a sudden I was like, oh, and 

[09:32] It's over.

[09:33] Cindy : We're done.

[09:34] Kelly: Okay.

[09:36] Cindy : Yes, No, I agree with all of that. But to me, a sign of a good book is one that I don't stop thinking about and I have thought about this book endlessly since I finished it.

[09:45] And so to me, that's a good sign. And I do think it is a great one to read with book clubs.

[09:49] Kelly: Yes, there are a few scenes in that book that still sit with me too.

[09:53] Cindy : Yeah, it's kind of crazy. So what else have you read recently?

[09:56] Kelly: Well, I read When the Wolf Comes Home by Nat Cassidy. This came out April 22nd. The cover is a disaster.

[10:05] Cindy : I will say I'm gonna look it up. Cause I don't even know this one.

[10:08] Kelly: Please go Google this. 

[10:11] It's not great. It's a Tor Publishing book. So I'll admit I was a little bit hesitant to pick up a horror novel and one in which the cover has this big weird wolf looking thing on it.

[10:21] The gory,

[10:22] over the top opening chapters had me questioning my decision. I was like, oh, I don't think this is for me. But I'm so glad I stuck with this book. It's unlike anything I've ever read.

[10:35] So while it embraces these classic horror elements,

[10:40] it evolves into something that's far more profound.

[10:45] What begins as this grotesque and unsettling situation slowly transforms into this darkly tender story that I couldn't put down.

[10:56] The story follows Jess. She meets a fearful boy in hiding. He's being pursued by a father whose monstrous form reflects both real danger and this deeper psychological trauma.

[11:08] So Jess and this little boy flee together. And the story delves deep into the ways that trauma,

[11:15] fear, and intrusive thoughts can really shape our realities, especially through the eyes of a child.

[11:22] This story is chilling. It's high stakes. It's got this nonstop tension and a surprising amount of heart.

[11:31] So if horror with heart sounds intriguing to you, I recommend picking up When the Wolf Comes Home by Nat Cassidy. Get through the first few chapters and then see how it goes.

[11:44] Cindy : Those are words you don't hear paired together very often. Horror with heart.

[11:47] Kelly: When I saw an early reader say that this was beautifully profound,

[11:53] I thought, huh,

[11:55] how can that be? But they're not wrong. It is beautifully profound. And it is also very over the top at the same time. So if you're looking for a unique reading experience,

[12:06] try this out. It's one like we just mentioned about Tilt. I will not stop thinking about this book. And the author's note is incredible 

[12:15] Cindy : I agree with you, the cover is terrible, but that's okay. So the insides sound like they're very good.

[12:21] Kelly: Yes. Based on the cover I would not have picked this up, but I saw a few reviewers post about this one day. There must have been a book tour or something cause I haven't seen it since the one day and it intrigued me and I'm really glad I read it.

[12:33] Cindy : I'm so glad. I love when that happens.

[12:35] Kelly: Yes. Yes. Don't read this one though. This is not for you.

[12:38] Cindy : I'm not planning to. I was like, I don't think this is for me, but it sounds good and like it would appeal to a lot of people.

[12:44] Kelly: Yes. Once we're done recording, I'll share a little bit about it with you because I know you're not going to read it.

[12:49] Cindy : Okay, perfect.

[12:50] So the other book I finished recently was a memoir by Tina Knowles. Tina Knowles, the mother of iconic singer songwriters Beyonce Knowles Carter,

[13:00] Solange Knowles and bonus daughter Kelly Rowland, is known the world over as a matriarch with a capital M. A determined, self possessed, self aware and wise woman who raised and inspired some of the great artists of our time, Matriarch begins with a precocious if unruly little girl growing up in 1950s Galveston.

[13:18] The youngest of seven, she is in love with her world, with extended family on every other porch and the sounds of Motown and the lapping beach always within earshot.

[13:27] But as the realities of race and the limitations of girlhood set in, she begins to dream of the world beyond. Her life's journey through grief and tragedy, creative and romantic risks and turmoil, the nurturing of superstar offspring, and of her own special gifts is the remarkable story she shares with readers here.

[13:45] It's a page turning chronicle of family love and heartbreak, of loss and perseverance, and of the kind of creativity, audacity and will it takes for a girl from Galveston to change the world.

[13:55] So this book was not on my radar at all.

[13:57] I read this glowing New York Times review about it and I thought, huh, okay, I'll check it out. She narrates it herself, which I always love for memoirs because you feel like that individual is actually telling you their story.

[14:09] Kind of like a friend is almost filling you in on their life.

[14:12] Beyonce, Solange and Kelly all have intros that they read as well, which I loved hearing.

[14:16] I like Beyonce, but I'm not a super fan or anything. I didn't know a lot about her early history.

[14:22] I knew she was married to Jay Z, but I didn't know how they got together. I mean, I didn't know any of that. There are all these interesting behind the scenes details, which as a music lover, I enjoyed.

[14:30] I also love the Galveston and Houston settings, but more than anything, I just loved reading about this woman's life. I mean, she literally began when there still was segregation. So her early years, she went to a segregated school.

[14:42] The beach was segregated in Galveston. It's just unfathomable to us, I think, to think through some of those things today.

[14:49] But to hear her talking about what that was like and then the strides that have been made and the progress for her and everything she's done, I just thought it was fantastic.

[14:57] And that's Matriarch by Tina Knowles.

[15:00] Kelly: This is a surprising under the radar gem, at least in the Bookstagram world, because I haven't seen it posted about anywhere. So I'm glad that you found this. It sounds like it's got broad appeal and it's taking off kind of in other bookish spheres.

[15:14] But to Bookstagram, I think it's a new one.

[15:17] Cindy : I agree with that. I haven't seen it anywhere. It was Oprah's pick, I think, for either March or April,

[15:23] but still. And the reviews are phenomenal on Goodreads. Like it's rated really well. The New York Times was gushing over it, which they rarely do. I just thoroughly enjoyed it.

[15:32] It was so unexpected for me and I was really happy that I had grabbed the audio.

[15:36] Kelly: I bet it's well done, too.

[15:38] Cindy : It is. And it was just so engaging. Well, what about you? What are you reading now?

[15:43] Kelly: Well, on the same vein as mothers, I'm reading Four Mothers by Abigail Leonard. This came out May 6th from Algonquin. This is a nonfiction book described as a page turning narrative of four real women.

[15:58] A deeply personal look at women worldwide grappling with the best and worst moments of their first year. Eye opening and cathartic. This is a love letter to parents and a clarion call for better policy.

[16:11] So I picked this up because when we were putting together our literary lookbook, I came across it. So I've got the lookbook to thank for this one. There are four women.

[16:21] There's a woman in Japan, there's a woman in Kenya,

[16:24] Finland, and then the United States.

[16:27] And so we get a window into each of their lives. And even the woman in the United States, her life is very different from mine. She grew up Mormon, and after her first child, she's leaving that community,

[16:39] so it still feels like a very different perspective.

[16:42] I think this book is surprisingly propulsive. I was immediately invested in each of these women. I'm about halfway through and I cannot wait to see how this turns out for them.

[16:54] It's really fascinating to learn about various motherhood experiences throughout the world.

[16:59] In Japan. Listen to this.

[17:01] You are not able to get an epidural in Japan,

[17:07] but maybe some sort of social construct, I'm not sure. After you deliver your baby, you get to stay in the hospital for like, five days,

[17:17] and you get these fresh and elaborate meals, like fresh seafood and things like that as you stay in the hospital.

[17:24] And then you pay virtually nothing.

[17:26] So I think they're like, sorry about no epidural.

[17:28] Here's a five course meal for five days.

[17:32] Like this sounds great. I mean, I could be convinced to have more children if I was a Japanese mother.

[17:39] Cindy : You know, I don't know. The epidural would really be a deal killer for me.

[17:43] Kelly: But to have 5 days without your other children.

[17:46] Cindy : 

[17:48] I had such trouble with my pregnancies that I was at the hospital forever each time.

[17:53] So I'm like, I don't need the epidural. I mean, I do need the epidural. I mean, I don't need the incentive of staying in the hospital longer. I was ready to get out.

[18:00] I was like, you can't be out of here.

[18:01] Kelly: That's.

[18:03] true.

[18:04] So it was just fascinating to hear about this. So I have, again, not seen this book anywhere, and I'm really, really eager to finish it and hope that other people pick this up.

[18:14] Cindy : And this is in line with your theme of mother books, because you're always drawn to those stories.

[18:19] Kelly: I am. I am. It's just a deep part of my life right now. And I'm like, okay, how are other people managing this?

[18:27] Cindy : Exactly.

[18:28] Kelly: Around the world.

[18:28] Cindy : Yeah, exactly. All around the world.

[18:30] Kelly: Yes.

[18:32] Cindy : Well, I am currently reading a book that, if you had asked me two weeks ago, was this a book I'd be reading, I would be like, yeah, no. But I am.

[18:39] And it is Conform by Ariel Sullivan, and it comes out October 16th.

[18:44] So Jenna Bush Hager has launched a new book project, and it's called Thousand Voices. And what she is doing is it's not an imprint, so it's not its own imprint like Emily Bestler or Pamela Dorman, but she is partnered with Random House and different books will come out under different imprints,

[19:02] but they will be Thousand Voices books. So I think this is fascinating and this is her first selection, so I'm going to tell you a little bit about it. A lifelong outcast, 27 year old Emmeline spends her days alone sorting ancient art for destruction.

[19:16] Centuries after a catastrophic war nearly decimated humanity, society is now ruled by an elusive and technologically advanced group called the Illum, who constantly monitor the population's health and mandate procreation contracts.

[19:28] But Emmeline's bleak existence is shattered when for the first time in decades, an Illum named Colin takes a mate,

[19:34] Emmeline. Baffled as to why she was chosen, Emeline is swept into the dangerous game of the courting, where one wrong move can mean elimination.

[19:42] Soon she discovers a rebellion rising in secret and that her mate may be keeping secrets of his own. Colin is confusing, both cold and protective, and worse, she finds herself drawn to the very last person she should be falling for, Hal, one of the resistance leaders.

[19:55] As she draws closer to both of them, the Illum exercise their power in increasingly brutal ways, forcing Emmaline to question everything, most of all, whether she'll have to give up her heart and even her life to stop them.

[20:07] So I loved the Hunger Games.

[20:09] So when Sherri Puzey of What Sherri Reads raved about this one and said she thought I would really like it, I was like, okay, I will request it and get it.

[20:17] When I first started it, I wasn't totally certain because there's a lot of world building and I was trying to figure out what all these terms meant. But once I got past all of that, because I don't read a lot of fantasy at all.

[20:26] So I think for people who read fantasy regularly or dystopian books regularly, that's probably very easy. But for me, it just took me a bit to kind of get into the rhythm.

[20:33] But once I did, it's definitely a page turner. It's always fascinating to me, again, talking like I did about Tilt, to see how authors are predicting or projecting or envisioning what the future could be like.

[20:46] And so this is just such an interesting way to do that. And that is Conform by Ariel Sullivan, and it comes out October 16th.

[20:54] Kelly: I'm very intrigued by that book, and the fact that Sherri liked it gives me great hope. Sherri and I actually connected for the first time when I started a Bookstagram book club for reluctant readers of A Court of Thorns and Roses.

[21:09] And so it was a bunch of readers who were just wanting to try this book that had been everywhere and were reluctant and hesitant. And we read it together and really liked it.

[21:18] So the fact that Sherri isn't a huge fantasy reader, but liked this one is promising.

[21:23] Cindy : Well, and the other funny thing is Jenna has said this is launching a new genre called dystoromantasy. It does not roll off the tongue,

[21:31] but I think it's kind of like all this fantasy romance. What is it called? Like, romantic.

[21:35] Kelly: Romantasy

[21:36] Cindy : Yeah. So this is going to be like dysto-romantasy. So I think that's really interesting. I'm always totally intrigued with dystopian stories. I loved Silo, which is based on the Wool series.

[21:46] And I do really like dystopian things. And again, it's just interesting to kind of see what the future might look like or just science fiction ideas of what it might look like.

[21:54] Kelly: Yes. Well, on that same note, next for me is a sizzling dysto romance. Is that what you called it?

[22:02] Cindy : I think that's what dysto-romantasy, I think is what she called it. So, yes, it'd be a dysto romance.

[22:07] Kelly: Okay, that's not too catchy.

[22:09] Cindy : That's what I'm telling you. It's really not catchy.

[22:11] Kelly: Yes. So it's Silver Elite by Dani Francis. And this came out May 6th. This is the first book in a series and it's about people who have psychic gifts.

[22:22] But this means that it is a death sentence for them. There are these rules to survival. You cannot trust anybody. You've got to lie to everyone. And whatever you do, don't fall for your greatest enemy.

[22:33] So readers are describing this as the grown up slash spicy version of Divergent and the next Fourth Wing. I'm always here for hyped books and just to see what it's all about.

[22:47] So this one, I had to get it when it was a Book of the Month club pick.

[22:51] It's a long book. It's 19 hours, I think, on audio. But readers that I trust have said it's well worth it. So I'm just like, I think 15% in, but I'm enjoying it.

[23:03] It feels accessible to me. Like there's not a lot of world building. You jump right into the story. There's not a lot of lead time. You're just right there.

[23:11] What I think is very interesting about this book is the publishers in their press release on Edelweiss said it's written by a New York Times bestselling author that's using a pen name.

[23:27] And now I must know who this, who this person is. Have you heard that at all?

[23:32] Cindy : I have not. But this is making me think back to that other one.

[23:35] Kelly: Remember what the Argylle.

[23:38] Cindy : Yes. I'm like, oh my gosh, we're back in Argylle world. Maybe it's Terry Hayes.

[23:42] Kelly: I was gonna say, if this is Terry Hayes secretly writing a book after I swore him off and then just without knowing, accidentally read his next book, I am gonna be upset.

[23:54] Cindy : That is so funny. I have not heard that. I have more to say about this one when you're done, but I don't want to interrupt you, but yeah, this is getting so much press.

[24:03] Kelly: Terry does not strike me as the dysto-romantasy type, but, you know, who's to put Terry in a box? We don't know.

[24:11] Cindy : Yeah, Terry sadly escaped his box with his last one that we really didn't like. So maybe if he could go back into the box, we'd all be better.

[24:19] Kelly: Yes.

[24:21] Cindy : So my book club that read Tilt picked this book for our June pick. And I'm like, who am I now reading all of these books, all these dysto-romantasy. But we don't meet till the end of June.

[24:32] So I am going to wait and read it closer in time.

[24:35] But what's fascinating is neither Sherri or I had heard about it and so we were looking it up and it had been out like two days. When we picked it, it already had 8,000 reviews on Goodreads.

[24:46] And I've been monitoring it and it goes up by like a thousand or two every single day.

[24:51] Like it is just sweeping across the fantasy genres because people are loving it. And I think Book of the Month ran out of it. They had to do a second printing.

[25:01] I had to try to track it down from several indie bookstores. So it definitely is taking off.

[25:08] Kelly: That's so fun for whoever this author is. I was hoping it was just like a no name debut author who is finally getting her comeuppance in the world, but maybe not.

[25:17] Cindy : Oh, that's interesting. Well, we're going to definitely have to keep our ear to the ground on that one, but I'm excited to read it, but I'm going to wait till closer in time because I find if I read them too far away from when we meet, then I can't remember all the details,

[25:28] so. And I need to kind of separate Conform in this one just to have a little bit to talk about. The other thing I forgot to mention on Conform was that it's being billed as a trilogy of trilogies.

[25:40] So there are going to be three sets of three, I guess, potentially, if the book sells well and that continues. But I've never heard of such a thing. So I guess one trilogy, then a second trilogy, then a third trilogy.

[25:51] Kelly: I do think that's smarter than doing a series of nine books because I do think it makes it more accessible for readers to jump into like a new trilogy within the trilogy,

[26:04] if that makes sense. A little confusing,

[26:06] all these things, you know, if they can kind of stand alone, it might seem less intimidating.

[26:10] Instead of being like, oh, there's seven books out. You're like, oh, no, this is the first one of this new little series. So that was Silver Elite by Dani Francis, and it came out May 6th.

[26:20] Cindy : Okay, good. Well, I'm really excited to read that one.

[26:22] Kelly: Yes, I'm excited to finish.

[26:24] Cindy : So the other book that I am currently listening to is Hunger Like a Thirst: From Food Stamps to Fine Dining, A Restaurant Critic Finds Her Place at the Table by Besha Rodell, which came out May 13. When Besha Rodell moved from Australia to the United States with her mother

[26:38] at 14,

[26:39] she was a foreigner in a new land, missing her friends, her father, and the food she grew up eating.

[26:44] In the years that followed, she began waitressing and discovered the buzz of the restaurant world, immersing herself in the lifestyle and community while struggling with the industry's shortcomings. As she built a family, Rodell realized her dream, though only a handful of women before her had been able to make a career as a restaurant critic.

[27:00] From the streets of Brooklyn to lush Atlanta to sunny Los Angeles to traveling and eating around the world, and finally home to Australia,

[27:08] Rodell takes us on a delicious, raw and fascinating journey through her life and career,

[27:12] and explores the history of criticism and dining and the cultural shifts that have turned us all into food obsessives. So I'm listening to this one, as I mentioned, and it's great.

[27:21] She has this awesome Australian accent, so it's really fun to hear that.

[27:25] But also her career began around the time that bloggers and then subsequently influencers really changed the reviewing game in the restaurant world, and I find that absolutely fascinating. A lot of the barriers came down that had been in place once people could just review what they wanted on a blog or on social media.

[27:43] It very closely parallels what's happened in the book world, where there used to be all these book reviewers out there. They were the only ones that could really write about books.

[27:50] And then with blogs and subsequently, social media that has really opened up who can talk about books and the way that books are marketed. So it was really interesting to see the parallels between the two as well.

[28:00] But I'm thoroughly enjoying it. And it's Hunger Like a Thirst: From Food Stamps to Fine Dining, a Restaurant Critic finds Her Place at the Table by Besha Rodell, and it came out May 13th.

[28:10] Kelly: Oh, that sounds great. I love that you're into the foodie books.

[28:14] Cindy : Well, the funniest part about that is that I'm not a foodie at all, but I really do like foodie books. I don't know why. I just find them really interesting.

[28:21] Kelly: Oh, I didn't know that about you. That's good.

[28:23] Cindy : I'm not really a foodie person. I just stick to kind of the basics most of the time. I don't really care about eating at the nicest restaurants or any of that kind of stuff.

[28:30] But I do love to read about food. Like, I love Ruth Reichl and all her stories, so I don't know what it is.

[28:36] Kelly: Oh, fun. That's great.

[28:37] Cindy : Well, what's up next for you?

[28:39] Kelly: Far and Away by Amy Poeppel. It comes out June 10th. She's the author of the Sweet Spot, which is a really great book that came out, I believe, a couple years ago.

[28:49] This story is about perfect strangers, Lucy and Greta, and they have agreed to a house swap. Lucy's hometown of Dallas has gone from home sweet home to vicious snake pit in the blink of an eye after her son makes a mistake he can't undo.

[29:03] And Greta's beloved flat in Berlin is suddenly up for grabs when her husband Otto takes a dream job in Texas without even telling her.

[29:11] In their rush to leave town, Lucy and Greta make a deal,

[29:15] pack their bags, and thanks to martinis, desperation and some very rusty German, have absolutely no idea what they're getting themselves into.

[29:23] Early reviewers say that this is a perfect summer story that's thoughtful, charming, and heartfelt.

[29:29] I can't wait to read it. That is Far and Away by Amy Poeppel, and it comes out June 10th.

[29:34] Cindy : I love Amy Poeppel herself and her books, and this one has been getting rave reviews. It's on my list, and I just have not had a chance to get to it yet.

[29:41] But I can't wait to hear what you think.

[29:43] Kelly: I know. There are just so many books coming out, it's hard to know what to read.

[29:48] Cindy : It really is.

[29:49] Kelly: Okay, what's next for you?

[29:51] Cindy : So what's next for me is The One and Only Vivian Stone by Melissa O' Connor, and it comes out July 22.

[29:57] After her grandmother's death, 30something Margot DuBois prepares to sell the house quickly so she can go back to her predictable life in Santa Barbara. There, no one knows she used to write and that her lack of success wrecked her confidence.

[30:08] But while cleaning out the attic, she comes across eight unlabeled cassette tapes. Unable to use the damaged tape player, she calls in a favor from Leo, her first love and first epic heartbreak.

[30:18] And they strike a deal. He'll fix the player if he can hear what's on the tapes. When they manage to listen, the two are shocked to hear the voice of comedic legend Vivian Stone.

[30:26] Why did she record these tapes? And how did Margot's grandmother get them? So the early reviews for this one are phenomenal and it sounds like it should be right up my alley.

[30:34] I love anything that has to do with Hollywood, that has to do with books and writing, all of it. So I'm really excited about this one. It's The One and Only Vivian Stone by Melissa O' Connor, and it comes out July 22nd.

[30:45] Kelly: I have an arc of this one and my mom already read it and she enjoyed it.

[30:50] Cindy : Okay, good. That's good to hear.

[30:51] Kelly: Yes.

[30:52] Cindy : What else is up next for you?

[30:54] Kelly: Sunburned by Katherine Wood. It comes out July 1st. St. Barth's has a murder rate of zero. But that's about to change when Audrey Collet’s ex, Tyson, calls, threatening to expose the skeletons in her closet unless she helps him figure out who is blackmailing him.

[31:10] She wants nothing more than to refuse. Though their relationship ended over a decade ago, the scars are deep.

[31:17] And since his tech company made him a billionaire,

[31:20] he's become more than a little eccentric and paranoid. But a foot has washed ashore in the Everglades. That's right, an actual human foot encased in an Air Jordan. And Tyson is quick to remind Audrey that it's one whose long dead owner they both have a connection to.

[31:35] A connection that could prove problematic if it got out early. Readers describe this as a classical whodunit with a very glamorous and romantic twist. And that's Sunburned by Katherine Wood.

[31:46] Cindy : I have been pitched this one, but I feel like I have just gotten in over my head with too many books arriving.

[31:51] So I haven't gotten it, but I'm now really curious to hear what you think.

[31:55] Kelly: Yes, the cover is so vibrant and it sounds like the sun soaked mystery for summer. That will be great.

[32:01] Cindy : I agree, it does sound like a great fit for summer.

[32:04] So the other book that is up next for me is one that everybody's gonna be like, you haven't read this book yet. And it's The Frozen River by Ariel Lawhon.

[32:11] Maine, 1789.

[32:13] When the Kennebec river freezes, entombing a man in the ice, Martha Ballard is summoned to examine the body and determine the cause of death. As a midwife and healer, she is privy to much of what goes on behind closed doors in Hallowell.

[32:26] Her diary is a record of every birth and death, crime and debacle that unfolds in the close knit community.

[32:31] Months earlier, Martha documented the details of an alleged rape committed by two of the town's most respected gentlemen, one of whom has now been found dead in the ice. But when a local physician undermines her conclusion, declaring the death to be an accident, Martha is forced to investigate the shocking murder on her own.

[32:48] I truly think I am the last person on this planet to read this book. One of my book clubs selected it and they always have a great discussion. It's my other book club that also has great discussions and so I do plan to read it before we meet.

[33:01] I don't usually like stories set during this time period, so I hadn't read it originally, but I'm excited to start it. And that's The Frozen River by Ariel Lawhon.

[33:09] Kelly: I recently read this book and I thought I was the last person to have read it, but my local book club picked it as well and it made for such a great discussion.

[33:20] It was surprising.

[33:22] It was fascinating. I really enjoyed it and typically I don't find myself drawn to books that are set that long ago,

[33:32] but this one was an exception for me.

[33:35] Cindy : That's what everybody keeps saying because that's what I have been saying for a year and however long it's been out is, I don't really like books set in the 1700s and people are like, it doesn't really seem like it's set then.

[33:44] So I am excited to read it and I'm excited to chat about it. That's why I want to make sure that I get through it.

[33:49] Kelly: Yes, I will be very curious to see what you end up thinking about it.

[33:52] Cindy : I'm sure I'll enjoy it. So have you read anything recently that didn't work for you?

[33:59] Kelly: Yes.

[34:01] So this morning I started and promptly stopped Not Quite Dead Yet by Holly Jackson. Holly is the author of the A Good Girl's Guide to Murder series, which is a YA series that is very popular and this book is her first adult thriller.

[34:20] The story is about Jet Mason and in seven days, she will be dead. She's 27 years old. She's still kind of waiting for her life to begin.

[34:29] She thinks she's got time until Halloween night when Jet is violently attacked by an unseen intruder.

[34:36] And she ends up suffering a catastrophic head injury. And the doctor is certain that within a week, the injury is going to trigger a deadly aneurysm. So she has at most seven days.

[34:46] And then as her condition is deteriorating,

[34:49] she only has her childhood friend Billy for help. But she is determined to finally finish something. She's going to solve her own murder.

[34:57] So I have

[34:59] a few issues with this one.

[35:01] She is a 27 year old woman, but she was acting so petulant. She was having an argument with her brother and they were just quibbling and 

[35:11] They were so rude to each other and it just seemed out of the blue. So I didn't love that. And then she was dropping the F bomb, like almost every other sentence.

[35:19] And I don't mind cursing. Typically in some other books, people will be like, oh, they were swearing a lot. And I'm like, really?

[35:26] But for whatever reason, this stuck out to me. It was the F word. It felt like every other sentence and it got distracting to me. And then Jet referred to her baby nephew as boring, and he's a baby.

[35:38] And I'm like, okay, girl, I don't want you to perish from your injuries. I'm not wishing death on you. But also,

[35:45] I don't want to personally spend any more time with her either.

[35:49] Cindy : I've heard that it reads very YA.

[35:51] Kelly: Mm, yeah, I think that was bothering me.

[35:56] Cindy : I know that does really bother you. And I kept seeing that in the reviews, and I don't love it either. And so that's not surprising to hear what you're saying.

[36:04] Kelly: I did look for the reviews specifically for that purpose, and I didn't see people mention that, but all the reviews I was reading were people that loved her YA books. So maybe it doesn't bother them.

[36:14] But who calls a baby boring?

[36:16] Cindy : Especially if it's your nephew, maybe a teenager.

[36:20] Kelly: Right, but she's 27.

[36:21] Cindy : Right? Yeah, but I'm just saying, like, you know, kind of back in line with people saying it reads YA. I think maybe that kind of is in line with that.

[36:27] Same with bickering sillily with your brother at that age.

[36:30] Kelly: Yeah, yeah. Yep. So that was a no for me. How about you?

[36:33] Cindy : I'm working on my summer reading guide, as we have mentioned, and I always like to have a light category. People enjoy light reads, particularly rom coms often are a big hit.

[36:43] So I had four and I had saved my fifth read until toward the end because I just knew I was going to love it based on some people that had blurbed it and a couple things that I saw.

[36:53] So, I mean, I really thought it was a slam dunk. So this was particularly bad news for me when I started this one and didn't like it. It's Gracie Harris is Under Construction by Kate Hash.

[37:04] So it's a debut rom com and there were all of these little issues from pretty early on.

[37:09] Like, I just kept thinking,

[37:11] people don't really do that. That doesn't really happen. Does she know people this age? Like, it just kept bugging me. And I was asking my 22 year old, okay, what do you think about this scene?

[37:20] And she's like, yeah, that doesn't really read, right? I was like, it really doesn't. So after the fourth or fifth, I'm done. I'm just gonna have to pass on this one.

[37:27] And I didn't like the main character either, so I ended up DNFing it. And then I had to go on a major hunt, which you helped me with, to try to find another book to place in its place.

[37:37] I ended up sampling three or four more, which didn't work. And then I did eventually find one, so I was very happy. But Grace Harris is Under Construction was just not a fit for me.

[37:48] Kelly: Oh, man, that's sad. When it was the last one of your category and you were sure it was gonna be a win, and then you're like, no, I can't. I just can't.

[37:54] Cindy : I just hate when that happens because I already had so many expectations on this book and I just thought, okay, I'm gonna sit down and read it and love it and put it right in.

[38:01] And then I was like, uh, oh,

[38:04] oh, man.

[38:05] Well, what's come in the mail for you?

[38:06] Kelly: I just received Battle of the Bookstores by Ali Brady which comes out June 3.

[38:11] Rivalry and romance spark when two bookstore managers who are opposites in every way, find themselves competing for the same promotion.

[38:19] Despite managing bookstores on the same Boston street, Josie Klein and Ryan Lawson have never interacted much. Josie's store focuses on serious literature, and Ryan's sells romance only.

[38:29] But when the new owner of both stores decides to combine them, the two are thrust into direct competition. Only one manager will be left standing, decided by who turns the most profit over the summer.

[38:41] And as their rivalry heats up in real life, their online relationship grows. And when the walls between their stores come tumbling down,

[38:48] Josie and Ryan realize not all's fair in love and war. And maybe, if they're lucky, happily ever afters aren't just for the books. That's Battle of the Bookstores by Ali Brady, and It comes out June 3rd.

[38:59] Cindy : I love Ali Brady. I have been such a fan of that duo since they started writing books together.

[39:05] I loved this one. It's definitely spicier than their last books, and I've already interviewed them for the podcast. They're just so much fun. Any book set in a bookstore, I'm going to love.

[39:14] And then I got to the end and my name was listed in the acknowledgements, which always makes me so happy.

[39:19] Kelly: That is such a true joy.

[39:21] Cindy : Yeah, it really is such a surprise. I was like, oh, how fun is this? So they are just delightful.

[39:26] Kelly: That's wonderful. What about you? What came in the mail?

[39:29] Cindy : So the first book that came in the mail recently that I am super excited about, this will show my nerdy side is Friends With Words: Adventures in Languageland by Martha Barnette, and It comes out August 5th.

[39:40] Martha Barnette has spent two decades as the co-host of A Way With Words, lauded by Mary Norris in the New Yorker as a virtual treasure house and car talk for Lexiphiles.

[39:49] Over that time, she's developed a keen sense of what fascinates people about language.

[39:54] They are curious about etymology and revel in slang, are surprised by regional vocabulary and celebrate linguistic diversity. Idioms both puzzle and delight word lovers, and they are eager to share that weird phrase that Grandma always used to say. In Friends with Words,

[40:08] Barnette weaves together all these strands in a clear, informative and highly entertaining exploration of language. Chock full of anecdotes, humorous asides, new words, trivia and other delights.

[40:21] Friends with Words also tells Barnette's story from her Appalachian roots through her study of ancient Greek, and onto the making of a beloved and enduring show.

[40:29] I truly cannot wait to start this one. It just arrived and I am all about words and language and I love understanding where it came from and roots and all of that.

[40:39] So this should be a big hit for me. And that's Friends with Words: Adventures in Languageland by Martha Barnette, and it comes out August 5th.

[40:46] Kelly: Oh, that does sound good. I took a linguistics class in college and I am also very interested in language and words, so let me know how that goes.

[40:55] Cindy : I will. And I love trivia. We've been doing these trivia nights here in Richmond and always words and their origin and all that come up. So I'm like, okay, good. This'll be a good way to study for my trivia nights too.

[41:05] Kelly: Oh, perfect. Double duty.

[41:07] Cindy : Exactly. What else has come for you?

[41:09] Kelly: The Book of Guilt by Catherine Chidgey. This comes out September 16th.

[41:14] She's the author of the Axeman's Carnival, which is a book about a talking magpie that I unexpectedly loved last year. She's also the author of Pet, which I think is a well known book, but I have not read it.

[41:24] The Book of Guilt is about an alternate world where nobody won World War II. The story follows three triplet brothers who are the only boys left in an orphanage whose dark secret is the reason for their existence and the key to their survival.

[41:41] This sounds very different from her previous books and I just love when an author tries to do something new. I think that's really brave. And so I'm excited to read the Book of Guilt by Catherine Chidgey.

[41:52] Cindy : Okay, that is so funny that you just brought this one up, because I walk with Sherri Puzey and this week she said, everybody is talking about this book. You need to request it.

[42:00] So I sent an email this morning to the publicist saying please send me a copy. And he responded, I will early next week. I didn't realize it was the Axeman's Carnival authority.

[42:09] Kelly: Yes, it is. And it is such a different premise. I'm so glad that people are talking about it because maybe it will get more people to pick up the Axeman's Carnival too.

[42:18] Cindy : Yeah, I'm really excited for that. It sounds very intriguing.

[42:22] Kelly: Good. I'm very excited for that book. That will maybe be my first read post summer reading guide.

[42:27] Cindy : Exactly. Maybe we can read it together and then talk about it.

[42:30] Kelly: Yes.

[42:31] Cindy : Okay. So the other one that came for me that I'm excited about is The Midnight Hour by Eve Chase.

[42:35] And it comes out in the US on August 5th. Notting Hill, 1998.

[42:40] Dee Delancey, loving mother, grieving widow, sometime model, heads out for the evening, blowing a kiss before vanishing down the crescent. She doesn't come home that night, nor the one after.

[42:50] Her reclusive teenage daughter Maggie refuses to accept she's gone. No one loses both parents in two years, do they? Forced to keep her house and mother her maddening little brother Kit, Maggie shuns the help of Dee's chaotic small circle of friends,

[43:04] fearing the news reaching the tabloids and the authorities.

[43:07] But she finds an unexpected ally in Wolf, an older boy with boxer's fists from the other end of Portobello, an unknown world of dark Labyrinthine shops, dusty antiques, human warmth and misrule.

[43:19] Far from the big white villas. But the clock is ticking and a stranger is lurking. As dangerous forces close in, Maggie faces an impossible choice. She must protect her brother, whatever the consequences.

[43:30] So this came out in the UK last year, and it's coming out this year here in the US in August, and people have been raving about it, and so I'm really excited to try it.

[43:38] And that's The Midnight Hour by Eve Chase, which comes out in the US on August 5th.

[43:42] Kelly: I have seen the cover of this one, and it sounds really great.

[43:45] Cindy : Yes, I'm excited. And the cover in the US is beautiful.

[43:48] Kelly: Yes, it is.

[43:50] Cindy : So now on to book news. We got our literary lookbook out the door and into the world, and people seem to really be enjoying it.

[43:59] Kelly: Yes, we were laughing because we were saying the last time we recorded that, we were hoping that our lookbook wasn't going to be quite as cumbersome with book titles, and it ended up being our biggest lookbook ever, with almost 700 books.

[44:13] Cindy : I know it's crazy, but, you know, you and I have been talking a lot about this. There are so many books coming out, I'm finding it a little harder to find as many that I like.

[44:22] And I don't know if it's because too many are coming out and so they're not spending enough time on some of them or if it's just that so many are coming out, it's hard to weed through.

[44:30] I don't know what it is, but, yes, many, many ended up in our literary lookbook.

[44:34] Kelly: Yes. And we do try to curate that list for the lookbook. We don't include, obviously, everything that's coming out, but there are still so many coming out. And I think that leads us into our next discussion about summer reading guides.

[44:48] Cindy : Exactly. Which we're now madly working on to get those out the door.

[44:51] Kelly: Yes, with the summer reading guide comes so much love and passion and time and work.

[44:59] And Cindy and I are just thrilled to put our two separate guides out into the world. Before we even really met or connected, we had each done our summer reading guides.

[45:10] And now that we are working together on the lookbook and the podcast and just in constant communication every day,

[45:17] we have made a concerted effort to make our reading guides as distinct as possible.

[45:24] You might find a couple of the buzzier books that we overlap on because people are going to pick those up and hear about those either way. But we do try to make our guides very, very distinct for that reason?

[45:39] Cindy : Yes. I think that you do a wonderful job of getting us set up early.

[45:44] We share with each other what we're looking at, we talk about it so we know, okay, we're not going to end up with guides that are like half overlapped with each other.

[45:51] So that there's not very much overlap at all, which I love because it definitely keeps us making focused choices on our reading. And yes, you mentioned the time, especially this year.

[46:01] Like, I have just had so many that have not worked for me. So it's really taken a while to piece together the ones that are working. Like, I really had to kind of dig deep.

[46:11] Kelly: Yes. This happened with my winter guide this past year as well.

[46:15] It felt harder than ever to find the books that I wanted to include. It just didn't come easy.

[46:21] And I know that, you know, we are going to feel so thrilled about the result and can stand behind every single one of the books that we put on the guide.

[46:31] But it is so much time to parse through some of these books. 

[46:36] we investigate early reviews on NetGalley from booksellers and librarians and other people who have read the book, you know, six, eight months in advance and just to try to see if, hey, maybe it will work for us.

[46:47] And sometimes we still get burned.

[46:49] But it is a labor of love to get to these books that feel really good.

[46:55] Cindy : I agree with that.

[46:57] Kelly: Because we don't want cost to be a barrier to anybody. We do have a tip based book payment structure. So if you contribute any amount towards a tip to either of our guides,

[47:10] we will send you the summer reading guide. So there is no fixed price like there is with some other guides out there.

[47:17] Cindy : And I took that idea from you because I initially had set a fixed price, but I really loved that idea that you had of letting people contribute what they feel comfortable contributing.

[47:26] So it isn't a barrier for people and I really thank you for that.

[47:30] Kelly: Especially if there are readers that are interested in the podcast and both of our recommendations resonate with them. They can contribute whatever they'd like and essentially receive two very distinct summer reading guides.

[47:42] And they can just name their price, which I think is fantastic and a great opportunity for readers.

[47:48] Cindy : I agree. And the other thing I forgot to mention was that people that are Patreon supporters of my podcast get my guides automatically. So those get sent out first before I even put it out into the world for everybody else if they are interested in it.

[48:00] If you are a Patreon paying member, then the guide comes out to you as part of your membership.

[48:05] Kelly: I love that.

[48:06] Cindy : Thank you. So this leads me into my other conversation,

[48:10] which is this brouhaha with the summer reading list that got published in the Chicago Sun Times. And I think at least one or two other papers or at least editions of other papers, but this man, and I can't remember his name right now, used AI to create a list of 15 books to read this summer,

[48:28] five of which were older actual books on the list, and 10 of which were written by actual authors that are prominent authors today. But none of them were actual books.

[48:38] So 10 different books were recommended by, like, Taylor Jenkins Reid, Kristin Hannah, different people, but they were not actual books.

[48:46] So what in the world?

[48:48] Kelly: Yes. Tina at TBR Etc.

[48:51] Lives in Chicago, and she had a friend send her this newspaper info and say, hey, have you heard of any of these books? What do you think you know about your summer books?

[49:00] Because Tina does a summer bonanza on the Book Talk, et cetera podcast. And Tina was looking at this list and knew immediately that what she was looking at was just totally incorrect.

[49:14] And so the Chicago Sun Times has really come under some fire for publishing this insert in their paper. They purchased this insert. I guess other newspapers can purchase this as well from a publication company.

[49:30] And it's just general recommendations, kind of for summer. And so they had assumed that it was already proofread by this publication company that they purchased it from. But they still apologize.

[49:43] But it does just bring up so many questions about journalism and getting recommendations and how important it is to get your information about books especially from people who know books and love books and read books.

[50:00] So that's my plug for our summer reading guide.

[50:03] Cindy : It's so true. And I understand the Chicago Sun Times perspective because they are buying this insert like many other newspapers do. I've seen those when I used to get a physical paper in my paper where you could tell it's not something local to Houston or Richmond or wherever it is,

[50:18] but it's something that was compiled, you know, on a national level. But what I don't understand is how, first of all, this man didn't proof his own AI written article.

[50:29] Like, let me go look these books up and just make sure I'm on board here. And then why whoever compiles this insert didn't proof it? I mean, I write monthly articles for the Buzz magazines,

[50:40] and my editor is phenomenal,

[50:43] and she will ask me, like, minute questions like, I can't find the character's name, is this correctly spelled? Or different little things like, she's clearly poring over what I have sent to her, making sure it all looks good, making sure it exists.

[50:56] And that's a Houston magazine. I can't imagine this publication that's sending out across the country and that nobody proofed it. I'm just completely half horrified, half fascinated.

[51:09] Kelly: Right. And then whoever was putting the Chicago Sun Times together, I mean, it's not their job, I guess, to proof it, but kind of if you're including something in your newspaper and there's no byline, there was no byline on the article, so we don't know who read it, you're going to assume that it's somebody from the Chicago Sun Times.

[51:26] Cindy : Wow. Don't you bet they will going forward?

[51:28] Kelly: Yes. And does nobody there read? That's discouraging to me. You could have taken one half hearted look at this and said, wait a minute.

[51:35] Cindy : Yeah. And it was like Tuesday that all of this started coming out. So like for two days it sat there with no one else commenting on it, or at least not commenting publicly.

[51:45] People may have looked at it and thought, huh? But it's all just crazy. And it does, like you said,

[51:51] really show why it's important to trust your sources and make sure they're actually reading the books and not just making them up.

[51:59] Kelly: Yes. I was reading the comments on Tina's TikTok that she did about this and somebody said, oh, bless the booksellers and librarians trying to assist the patrons that come in with this,

[52:12] you know, newspaper in hand, looking for certain books, you know,

[52:16] and they don't exist.

[52:18] Cindy : Yeah, I was thinking about that after I worked at Murder by the Book. And I'm like, oh, all these angry, upset customers who are going to insist, okay, these books exist, they're right here in print.

[52:27] And then of course they don't. And I thought, what a nightmare.

[52:31] Kelly: Yes, what a nightmare indeed.

[52:32] Cindy : Yes, exactly.

[52:33] Well, always interesting.

[52:35] Oh, I had one other thing I was gonna share.

[52:38] And of course, again, talking about where things come from.

[52:42] I found this on one of my group chats on Facebook, but everybody was weighing in and seemed to agree with her. But I thought it was just kind of a little bit of vocabulary word issue as we were talking earlier about how much I love that about the term galley.

[52:57] Can I read this to you really quickly?

[52:59] Kelly: Sure.

[52:59] Cindy : Okay. It says the term galley actually comes from the old days of printing and publishing. And it has nothing to do with ships or kitchens, even though it sounds like it might, because, you know, a galley kitchen.

[53:08] Back when books were typeset by hand, the individual lines of type were arranged in a metal tray called a galley tray. This tray held the type in place before it was locked up and printed in its final form.

[53:18] The pages that were printed from these trays were called galley proofs,

[53:22] essentially rough drafts used to check for typos, layout issues, or errors before the final version was produced. Over time, even as technology changed and actual metal type trays disappeared, the term galley stuck around.

[53:34] So today, when publishers send out early versions of books, often uncorrected and not in final format, they still call them galleys, galley proofs, or sometimes advance reader copies. They're all basically descendants of that original process.

[53:48] I thought that was so interesting.

[53:49] Kelly: That is very interesting. Thank you for sharing that.

[53:52] Cindy : Yes. So again, I pulled this off of a group in Facebook, but it doesn't seem like this would be something somebody would take up the time to make up. But I thought it was interesting.

[54:01] And I'm assuming based on kind of what I know about printing, that that's at least very close to the truth, if not the truth.

[54:06] Kelly: Yes, that does seem very elaborate and niche as to not be true.

[54:10] Cindy : Exactly. I agree with that. All the different crazy things happening these days. I just wanted to say I'm not completely standing behind that, but I thought it was interesting.

[54:19] Kelly: Thank you for sharing.

[54:19] Cindy : Yes,

[54:20] Kelly, thank you so much. These are always such fun conversations. I feel like we end up going down little rabbit holes sometimes that I don't expect, and that's so much fun.

[54:28] And I love talking about the Literary Lookbook and the summer reading guide and just all of it. So thank you for your time.

[54:33] Kelly: Thank you for having me. Next time we chat, our summer reading guides will be out in the world.

[54:38] Cindy : I know. Hallelujah. I can't wait to celebrate. Yay.

[54:41] Kelly: Happy summer reading.

[54:42] Cindy : Yes, exactly.

[54:46] Thank you so much for listening to my podcast. I would love to connect with you on Instagram or Facebook where you can find me at Thoughts from a Page. If you enjoy the show and have a moment to rate it or subscribe to it, wherever you listen to your podcasts,

[54:58] I would really appreciate it.

[55:00] It makes a huge difference. And please tell all of your friends about Thoughts from a Page. Word of mouth does wonders to help the show grow. I hope you'll tune in next time.