Laura Wood - LET'S MAKE A SCENE

[00:00] Cindy: Welcome to Thoughts from a Page, a member of the Evergreen Podcasts Network. I'm Cindy Burnett, and I am so glad you're here. I personally select and read every book featured on the show so I can bring you thoughtful spoiler-free author interviews.

[00:24] Whether you're deciding what to read next or looking for deeper insight after finishing a book, you're in the right place. I hope these conversations will enrich your reading life. In addition to the podcast, I write a monthly column, Buzz Reads, featuring my top five picks for each month which is linked in the Show Notes.

[00:39] If you're looking for the best books to read this summer, don't miss my Summer Reading Guide, also linked in the Show Notes. If you enjoy the show, rating and reviewing it on Apple or Spotify really helps new listeners find me.

[00:51] If you're looking to contribute to the show financially, you can support me on Patreon or with a one-time contribution on PayPal Venmo or buy me a coffee. It takes a long time to grow a show and I continue to find a larger audience thanks to you, my loyal listeners.

[01:05] I am so grateful.

I am thrilled that Laura Wood returns this time to chat with me about Let's Make a Scene.

[01:13] Laura is one of the most delightful individuals and I absolutely love hosting her. We have a wonderful conversation about Let's Make a Scene.

[01:21] Her book Under Your Spell last year was my favorite romance of the year. If you haven't read it yet, you need to check it out and Let's Make a Scene is a wonderful follow up.

[01:31] Laura is a bestselling and acclaimed author of children's and young adult novels and romance for adults, including Under Your Spell. She lives in Warwickshire, England with her husband and their dog Bea.

[01:41] I hope you enjoy our conversation.

[01:45] Welcome Laura. How are you today?

[01:47] Laura: I'm great today, thank you Cindy. I'm just so excited to be back talking about my new book with you.

[01:54] Cindy: I feel the exact same way. Our last conversation remains one of my favorites. I love your books. I love you. So I'm so excited that we're getting to chat again and Let's Make a Scene was such a fun read.

[02:06] Laura: That's so nice. Honestly, I had the best time last time and I was so excited to come and talk to you about writing this book because my nerves are very high at the moment, we're approaching publication when we're recording this and so I'm feeling very anxious.

[02:20] But also the actual writing of this book was so interesting and so I'm really excited to kind of get into that with you.

[02:28] Cindy: Okay, good. I cannot wait to talk about that. And I have to tell you, I read the book cover to cover. I loved it. And I got to the end and my name was in the acknowledgments, and that just meant so much to me.

[02:39] Thank you.

[02:40] Laura: Oh, well, my pleasure.

[02:42] I just think it's so nice to be able to do that and acknowledge people who were so kind and generous about my first book. And that obviously includes you, so.

[02:51] Yeah, my pleasure. Absolutely.

[02:53] Cindy: Well, you know, I will always be the biggest fan of Under Your Spell. That book was just delightful, as is this one.

[02:59] Laura: Thank you.

[03:00] Cindy: So let's dive in. Why don't you give me a quick synopsis of Let's Make a Scene?

[03:04] Laura: Yes.

[03:05] Let's Make a Scene is a book about two actors, Cynthia and Jack.

[03:10] They first meet when they're about to make their very first film together,

[03:16] which is a kind of regency romance. And they hate each other. It's pretty much hate at first sight. Hate and lust at first sight. They don't get on well at all,

[03:26] and things kind of descend into chaos on this film set. They swear that they'll never see each other again, and then 13 years later,

[03:35] they get called in to make a sequel to this film, which has become a kind of cult classic.

[03:41] And I think they both go into that process imagining that they're going to be working with the same person that they met 13 years earlier, and that turns out to not be the case.

[03:52] So the book moves between what's happening now and what happened between the two of them 13 years earlier.

[03:59] Cindy: And how did you come up with the idea for this one?

[04:02] Laura: Well, the very first idea for this one came from a really specific moment,

[04:07] which was the 2005 MTV Movie Awards best kiss between Ryan Gosling and Rachel McAdams, which is such a funny kind of starting point for a novel. But it absolutely was because the first time I spoke to my agent about this book, we were pitching Under Your Spell as part of a two book deal.

[04:31] And so she had asked me, you know, do you have ideas for what you would like to write for the second book? And I said, well, there are a couple of characters in the first book who just get a very small mention and I'd like to write something about them.

[04:44] And I've been thinking a lot about this moment and it was so much fun because my agent, who is kind of the same age as me, just lit up and we started having this really kind of exclamation filled conversation about that particular moment.

[05:01] And why it was so romantic and why people enjoyed it so much. And I was really interested in the idea that these two actors who starred in this very famous romance then had a kind of romance off screen.

[05:18] But actually it turned out that when they were making the film, they didn't get on very well at all. And so actually the whole idea for the book started from there, which, yeah, like I say, it's kind of a strange place to find inspiration, but that's the truth of it.

[05:33] Cindy: Well, and it clearly worked.

[05:37] Laura: Very fun place to start. And I have to say it's been really enjoyable to be able to talk about that with people, because it is something that, It's one of those kind of if you know, you know things and people do light up about it.

[05:52] So, yeah, it's a really fun shorthand for that sort of story.

[05:56] Cindy: Absolutely. And I loved that Theo and Clemmie from Under Your Spell made appearances. That was just so much fun to me. Is that something you're going to continue when you're writing further romance novels?

[06:08] Laura: Yes, I think so. I imagine everything happening in the same universe. So it's really fun to be able to drop characters in. I love it when other writers do that, when characters from previous books make a little kind of cameo.

[06:24] And certainly the next couple of books that exist in my head are characters who we have already met.

[06:32] Cindy: Okay, that's very exciting and I look forward to that. And the nice thing about doing it that way is they're not really sequels or they're not sequels at all. So you can read each book as a standalone, but if you've read the prior book, there's almost an extra bonus for the reader.

[06:45] Laura: Yeah, exactly that. I love it when that happens because you're not tied in to, you know, rigidly reading a series in order or anything. But for me, when that happens, it feels like you're kind of bumping into old friends and it's exciting to see them again.

[07:03] So,

[07:04] yeah, I really enjoyed being able to include Theo and Clemmie in this book.

[07:09] Cindy: I agree with that. Well, I loved all of the movie references. Hollywood as a backdrop. Let's talk about your research and then how much fun it had to be to write with that background.

[07:18] Laura: Everything about this project turned out to be incredibly ambitious on my part. It's the first book that I've ever written that's dual point of view. It's the first book I've ever written that's dual timeline.

[07:31] And then it's also set on two film sets 13 years apart. And I literally didn't know anything about how you make a film.

[07:40] So it was quite,

[07:42] There was quite a lot of research involved.

[07:45] And part of that,

[07:47] I would say the biggest and most helpful things, There were books that I read.

[07:53] So the main one that I referenced a lot is Emma Thompson's Sense and Sensibility Screenplay and Diaries,

[08:02] which I don't know if you've read it, but it is the most fantastic, joyful experience to read it. So it's the screenplay of the wonderful film that she adapted. And then in the back there are her diaries from the period when they were making the film.

[08:19] And so because that was the kind of film that Jack and Cynthia were making,

[08:23] it was especially helpful in terms of giving me an idea of what the process of that actually looked like and who the different kind of people were who would be involved and learning about things like second assistant directors and the different people working the cameras and how actors find their marks and all sorts of different kind of technical things that I had no idea about before.

[08:48] That was incredibly helpful with that.

[08:50] Cindy: I adore her, but I have not read that book. I'm going to have to track it down.

[08:54] Laura: It's so fantastic. I love her too. And it's as you would expect from her.

[08:58] The diaries are so funny and also quite poignant. And when she was making Sense and Sensibility, I think her personal life was quite difficult.

[09:11] It wasn't even just the kind of technical side of it that was helpful to me when I was writing.

[09:16] It was the kind of experience an actor would have personally on a set like that, and the relationships that you would build and the people that you would meet and the way you would interact and where you would stay and all these kinds of things.

[09:33] So that was really deeply helpful to me.

[09:36] Cindy: And it sounds really interesting.

[09:38] Laura: Yeah, I mean,

[09:39] that was one of the things that, like you say,

[09:42] doing the research for this was really fun.

[09:45] It felt intimidating at times because I felt so ignorant. But the more I learned about this stuff, the more I thought,

[09:53] wow, this is really fun. And if I can get some of that fun into the book, the sense that actually making a film is fun. It's kind of like a mad, grown up summer camp feeling.

[10:08] And I wanted to try and get some of that into the book as well.

[10:12] Cindy: And I think you did that well. And the other thing that I thought you depicted very well was that it's really hard to be a celebrity in this day and age.

[10:19] And there's a lot that they have to go through. A lot of personal issues are dissected in the press,

[10:25] correctly or not correctly. Just a lot of misinformation. And I felt like you really got that onto the page effectively.

[10:31] Laura: Thank you. I think.

[10:33] I guess that's in some ways similar to Under Your Spell with Theo being a very famous person. I am really fascinated by the idea of fame and how a person is supposed to live with that in the kind of world that we live in at the moment.

[10:48] And I. I think it’s complicated, isn't it? Because,

[10:52] you know, with the state of the world at the moment, I think it can be really difficult to feel very woe is me about a celebrity having their privacy invaded.

[11:00] But on the other hand,

[11:02] for me, what's interesting is I'm thinking about these characters as people,

[11:07] and I think that the way we treat celebrities is often, we don't think of them as people,

[11:12] but they are. And so what kind of tension that's interesting for a writer there is what does a person feel like when they're put in that situation?

[11:22] It must be awful.

[11:24] It must be a lot to have to deal with,

[11:27] even if it's been years and it's your kind of normal.

[11:32] How does that feel? How do you navigate the world? How do you navigate new relationships, all of these things. I think there's a kind of conflict there. That, for a writer, is a really rich area to explore.

[11:46] Cindy: I agree with that. I feel like often real people feel like they've gotten to know these celebrities either through their music or through the TV shows they've done or the movies or things that we see in magazines, and we really don't.

[11:57] And that's got to be a little unnerving sometimes to be this famous person, have people coming up to you like they know you or feel like they know you when they really don't.

[12:05] Laura: Yeah, I think that's true. I also think there's something strange. There's a strange kind of sense of ownership in that as well. That we as the people consuming this music or theater or film or art or whatever, we have a sort of stake in these people that you wouldn't have with,

[12:24] someone else, just a stranger that you didn't know.

[12:28] So that's hard as well, because there's a sense of,

[12:33] I don't know, something transactional about the relationship. That's complicated.

[12:37] Cindy: I think that's right. And the fact that people often feel, okay, they're famous, so because they're famous, we have a right to have access to them, or they should expect that this is going to happen to them.

[12:47] And that doesn't really make sense to me. Those don't really meet up for me.

[12:52] Laura: I would agree with that. And I think that is exactly one of the things that I'm interested in writing about when I'm writing these romances that do feature celebrity characters in them is, 

[13:05] how much of a person does this character owe?

[13:10] How much of themselves do they owe to other people?

[13:14] And where are their boundaries and how do they draw lines around that? And especially in the context of a romantic relationship, I think that's a really fruitful area of conflict and tension.

[13:27] Cindy: I agree. So you mentioned that this was the first time you did the dual timeline and dual perspective. Let's talk a little bit about that.

[13:34] Laura: Yes, it was a nightmare.

[13:40] So I don't know if I had really kind of thought too much about it before I started writing.

[13:47] I had done what I always do, which is I had written quite a detailed outline of the narrative and what would happen.

[13:54] I felt like I had a real sense of action and the characters.

[13:59] And I had said, it's gonna move between the two of them narrating.

[14:03] And also you're gonna find out what happened 13 years ago and you're going to find out what happens now.

[14:09] So the first issue that I ran into is that I write from the start to the end,

[14:18] always without any deviation.

[14:20] Even if there is a particular scene that I know is going to happen, I don't write that scene until I get to the point in the book where that scene is going to sit.

[14:31] So that was complicated.

[14:35] When the timelines, the book, you know, jumps between the two. It doesn't happen.

[14:42] The narrative doesn't happen consecutively.

[14:45] So I started,

[14:47] My plan was that I was gonna write it through as it happened. So all of the 13 years earlier and then all of the 13 years later,

[14:57] and then I would kind of mix it up. But as I was writing,

[15:03] that changed because I felt I would come to a point and feel this is an obvious transition place where we would move to what's happening in the current day.

[15:13] So I started occasionally writing now chapters as I was writing the then chapters.

[15:20] Although we did end up moving things around in the edit, which is another complicated process.

[15:28] And also I would say my books are extremely character driven.

[15:35] So generally speaking, I would say my narrative is quite gentle,

[15:41] relatively low stakes. There's not a huge amount of action.

[15:46] It's very interested in characters and character arcs. And usually I would have a really clear character arc of, this is where a character starts, this is where a character ends up.

[15:58] This is everything that they go to to get from point A to point B. But when the book is dual timeline and dual perspective, and it's moving around,

[16:08] that suddenly fell apart. The arcs were suddenly these kind of like sound waves,

[16:13] and I was trying to wrestle them into submission.

[16:17] And there are huge differences to how I would usually do things. Like, I would say for Jack, who is one of the main characters,

[16:25] his emotional arc, actually a lot of it happens off the page,

[16:31] in the gap between. In this kind of space between 13 years ago and now,

[16:37] and that's part of the story, is that he has changed so much and he's done so much work on himself. So when the two are reunited and Cynthia is expecting to be met with this kind of combative figure,

[16:52] and she isn't, the rug is kind of pulled out from under her and she has to reassess.

[16:57] So everything about the way I would usually plan and structure a novel went out the window with this one.

[17:05] Cindy: So did you really struggle with it, or did you just have to find a new way to write?

[17:10] Laura: Yeah,

[17:12] I think to say I struggled with it is maybe wrong, because it was actually a blast,

[17:18] which was unexpected.

[17:19] I think maybe it is that. It wasn't so much a struggle as it was a challenge. It was genuinely a real technical challenge to make this thing work.

[17:31] And for me, you know, I've written quite a lot of books at this point. I think this was like, my…

[17:36] Isn't it terrible not to know how many books you've written?

[17:39] Cindy: That's a good sign, though, if you've gotten to that point where you don't even know. I'm like, that's a good sign.

[17:44] Laura: Yeah. I think this is, like, my 16th book, maybe. And so it felt actually, like quite a thrill to be in a place where I was pushing myself technically where it was challenging to write it.

[17:57] And I wasn't able to rely on the kind of, I guess, system that I've developed for being able to write a book.

[18:04] Of course, one of the things that is difficult about that is,

[18:09] in particular when you're writing this kind of book, when you're writing a romantic comedy, is that it can be technically challenging, it can be a difficult book to write and put together.

[18:22] But crucially,

[18:24] that cannot exist within the reading experience of the book.

[18:30] So when the reader picks it up they can have no inkling of how difficult it was for me to write it. That's important.

[18:38] It's important that their experience is completely light and,

[18:42] I don't know, gentle and smooth.

[18:44] They can't see any of the strings and all the cogs and wheels moving behind the scenes.

[18:52] So, you know, it is a really interesting challenge, and I did really, really genuinely enjoy it.

[18:58] Cindy: That's one of the things that I have found so fascinating about doing this podcast and talking to so many authors across many genres is that sometimes a book is very easy to write,

[19:08] and I pick the book up and I read it, and you can tell that. But sometimes the book is a little more challenging, often in a good way, as you're describing.

[19:14] And I don't think you almost ever can tell that as a reader, especially if it's a book I really like. Now, maybe sometimes if I haven't liked a book, there's more to it, but I'm not interviewing those authors.

[19:23] So it's interesting to see, though, that it can still be very challenging on your end, but it's seamless as I read.

[19:30] Laura: I think one of the things that can be difficult about being a romance writer is that people can be dismissive of the genre as a whole. And what you're describing is right, I think, which is that if you're writing literary fiction,

[19:45] it's absolutely good and fine for the reader to kind of pause over how clever the book is. It must have been difficult to write. I'm admiring the writing,

[20:00] and I love books like that.

[20:03] I absolutely admire writers who write like that, but I don't think there are a lot of people who are saying, wow, writing this rom com must have been an incredible technical challenge for this writer.

[20:15] And yet often that is the case. And as well as that, you have to make sure that your work doesn't show that there are no seams. And so,

[20:27] I think it is something that's. That's a kind of complication within genre fiction that we don't really talk about.

[20:35] Cindy: I think that's exactly right. And Annabelle Monaghan and I just had a similar conversation when I interviewed her about It's a Love Story recently,

[20:43] because she said the same thing. Romance readers expect a happily ever after, and that's part of the genre, but it can be very difficult to get there because there's only so many things that can break up a couple that are allowable in terms of, you can't have these horrible,

[20:58] horrible things happen and then bring them back together and expect the reader to be like, yay, you know, so it's difficult. And I think writing romance is a lot harder than people give authors credit for,

[21:08] for sure.

[21:08] Laura: I mean, that's the absolute double edged thing about writing. In a genre that's so overtly interested in tropes and linked into the idea of tropes is really that every book that you read relies on tropes.

[21:23] Every piece of literature is a tropey piece of literature. Shakespeare is the king of the trope. But for a romance writer, you're using those self consciously. It's almost a kind of meta relationship where you have these building blocks and you have to find a way to arrange them that's going to be satisfying for the reader and recognizable for the reader,

[21:45] but also somehow new and different and interesting.

[21:49] So it is, it is a huge challenge in that respect.

[21:52] Cindy: I agree with that. And you lead me right into my next question, which was I was looking at all the reviews and reading romance reviews is so much fun because that is what everybody talks about is the tropes.

[22:03] And so you just mentioned that. And the first thing you see often is, oh, I love this trope, I love that trope. And this book includes these certain tropes. And it's just really fun because that's something that is clearly very important to romance readers.

[22:15] Do you set out with what tropes you're gonna use before you write, or does that come to you as you're writing?

[22:21] Laura: Usually I do have them in mind before I write because it helps me when it comes to structuring the outline of the story, which is where I start.

[22:30] So with this book, I knew I would be kind of hitting certain notes. I knew it would be enemies to lovers. I knew there would be a kind of second chance romance.

[22:39] But also specifically with this book, Let's Make a Scene. It was really fun because I knew that I would be able to really reference the films, the romantic comedies that I grew up enjoying that I love.

[22:55] And so there is almost a kind of meta-ness to some of the tropes in this particular book because I get to use specific scenes and moments and instances from films and books that I have really loved all my life.

[23:12] And so the kind of tropiness of this book exists on a sort of extra level.

[23:17] Cindy: And I loved that. It's just interesting to me how much romance focuses on tropes. Not in a good or a bad way. It's just one of those genres that is very tied to tropes.

[23:28] Laura: Yeah, I think for me. So I've been a real lifelong romance reader and also a bookworm since day one.

[23:38] And for me,

[23:39] I remember as a very small child taking books out of the library every week and often I would take out the same book over and over again.

[23:48] And that is a habit that has remained with me as an adult reader. I absolutely love to reread favourite books.

[23:56] Once I've read, you know, several new books in a row, it's like I need to have a little reread or something.

[24:03] And I think in a way that that experience for me is the same,

[24:08] it kind of comes from the same place as this idea of tropes in romance, which is that I often read for comfort,

[24:17] I often read for escapism.

[24:20] And so tropes, I think,

[24:22] really deliver on that front. There is the comfort and the familiarity of a trope that you love and then seeing that trope executed well. And there is an element of safety in that.

[24:36]  In an uncertain world,

[24:38] knowing that the book you pick up is going to have a happy ending,

[24:42] knowing that it's going to hit specific notes that, you know you enjoy reading, is comforting.

[24:50] So I think, those things are tied together in my head.

[24:53] Cindy: At least I think that makes sense. And I do think people are looking for an escape these days. And it's very nice to find a happy place to go, but also a comfortable place.

[25:03] Laura: Yeah, I think that's right. I think when I think about my favorite writers who are exclusively romance writers, I think those books are a safe space for me, are somewhere where I can go to and feel kind of comforted and well looked after.

[25:21] And there's something,

[25:22] I think this is maybe linked to why people talk about guilty pleasures, which I don't think we need to be calling anything a guilty pleasure.

[25:30] Cindy: I agree. I don't mean to interrupt you, but I do agree and I hate when I see that.

[25:34] Laura: I know, and I think that comes from that feeling, though, that feeling that it's indulgent, it's an indulgence to be in that safe, familiar, warm space.

[25:48] It is a real pleasure and it is an escape from the kind of hard,

[25:52] often hard realities of the world.

[25:55] So maybe that's where the kind of guilty part comes from. Although I think the last thing we need is any extra guilt that we're carrying around.

[26:02] Cindy: Maybe that is the truth.

[26:07] Well, one of my favorite parts of our conversation last time was your story about writing the sex scenes and sending them to your agent,

[26:13] who then didn't get them because they'd gone to her spam. And so you were sitting there waiting on her to respond. She wasn't responding. All of that was so funny.

[26:21] And so I wanted to hear a little bit about writing the sex scenes this time.

[26:24] Laura: Okay. Well, yeah, that's one of my favorite stories too. And I just think what a funny and real way to get into the world of writing sex scenes. But, yeah, I actually found it much easier this time around.

[26:38] I think maybe 

[26:41] Because I had written them for Under Your Spell, it felt like that first initial kind of anxiety about it wasn't there in the same way. Also,

[26:51] I know we talked last time about how for both of us, we don't. Personally, I don't respond great to books that have lots of sex scenes in them.

[27:02] Like, I have nothing against them. I just like the plot. So I find it difficult when a book becomes just sex. Although, you know, there's plenty of space for those kinds of books, obviously.

[27:14] And in this book,

[27:16] As with the last book, I felt there is a bit more sex in this book, I think, than Under Your Spell. But it felt to me very important in terms of the characters and their relationship.

[27:29] I felt like there are only,

[27:31]  two or three sex scenes in the book, but they felt like each one really helped to build their kind of relationship. So there is one, I don't want to be too spoilery, but there is one in the earlier timeline which 

[27:48] I knew from the beginning was going to happen, which felt really important because it's part of the kind of tension between the two of them.

[27:57] And then in the later storyline,

[28:00] I think the sex scenes are actually quite deeply romantic and kind of a moment for the reader to feel and understand the connection and the depth of the connection between the characters.

[28:14] Cindy: I agree with all of that and I agree with what you said earlier, that I don't need a book with a lot of sex scenes. As you said, there are plenty of books like that, and that's great.

[28:22] Whatever appeals to people is wonderful. But for me, I don't need a lot of that. And so that's why I always like your books, because there's a good balance.

[28:29] Laura: Well, it's hard, because this is one of the things that I think is difficult about being a writer, is no book is for every reader. It's impossible. When Jane Austen is getting mixed reviews, you know

[28:44] You have no hope. And often one of the things that you have to get your head around is the fact that when people review the book, they will have not necessarily criticisms, but,

[28:56] comments that are mutually exclusive.

[28:59] So sex scenes are such a good example because there will be readers who will read my books and say, like you, this for me is the ideal balance, which it is for me.

[29:09] Then there will be readers who will say, I could have done without the sex scenes. I prefer closed door. And then there will be readers who will say, it wasn't spicy enough, and I wish there had been more sex in it.

[29:20] And, that's just one of the realities of it for me. I feel like I like to try and find that balance where the sex is there because it's emotionally important rather than, I guess, titillating.

[29:35] I also am mindful that there are readers who prefer not to have any sex in their books for whatever reason. And so I like to try and make it so that if you decide you're going to skim or skip those chapters, you're not going to lose the thread, I suppose,

[29:53] of the plot. But, yeah, it is difficult. You can't keep everyone happy.

[29:59] Cindy: I agree with that. And I just recently had a conversation about this with another author, and we were talking about, the pepper ratings and that I wish there was just a uniform spiciness rating that maybe went from one pepper to 10 that everybody could kind of agree on,

[30:12] because I think that would help a lot. People would know a little more what to expect when they go in, but it would be nice to just have a better sense, and I think that would probably set readers up a little better.

[30:22] Laura: I think that's true. I mean, like you say, I have no idea how you would do it, but I do think that's true. I definitely saw with Under Your Spell, which has sex scenes in it, the sex on the page.

[30:34] I saw a few reviews that said, like

[30:38] it's closed door, or it's like one chili or zero chilies out of five. And I was thinking, this isn't necessarily helpful because I think what that reader is reflecting on is the fact that compared to what they usually read, there's not a huge amount of sex on the page.

[30:55] But there is sex on the page. And who are these ratings for? Because there are people who, for whatever reason,

[31:01] really don't want to read sex on the page. And it's difficult for them if they're being told the book is closed door when it's not.

[31:10] So I feel like you're right that it's difficult, that there isn't a kind of universal scale or language that we have for talking about it.

[31:18] Cindy: It would really help, I think, sometimes. But I'm not going to take that on.

[31:25] Laura: I feel like that's a job for scientists.

[31:29] Cindy: Well, what about the title and the cover. I love the cover and the title's so cute. How did all of that happen?

[31:36] Laura: Oh,  you always ask me the question that ends up with the funny story.

[31:41] So the story with the title is such a saga. And again, I haven't talked about this, but originally my working title for the book was Second Chance Romance.

[31:52] And that was,

[31:53]  as I wrote the draft, what we had called it, and then my editor in the US and my editor in the UK got together and they said to me, are you really deeply attached to this title?

[32:06] Because we don't love it.

[32:08] We have a suggestion for a title that we do love. And it was,

[32:13] Let's Try That Again.

[32:14] And I said,

[32:16] oh, I love it. That's such a great title. It's got the link to the movies, it’s you know, hinting at the Second Chance Romance without being so in your face about it, as my very blunt title was.

[32:30] And so for a while that was the title.

[32:33] And then what happened was we got some feedback from one of the buyers at, I don't know, one of the shops where they're hoping to sell the book and they didn't like the title.

[32:45] And so then everything went crazy.

[32:50] And I didn't actually know this was happening because I was flying out to the States to meet my American publishers, Atria, and my editor Mel, and all the team there who are incredible.

[33:04] And I was flying, I think, on the Monday and on the Friday,

[33:09] I got an email from my US editor and my UK editor saying, okay, so we've had this feedback about the title.

[33:16] We've been backwards and forwards between our two teams and we can't agree on an alternate title.

[33:24] So we’re suggesting that you have two different titles, one for the UK and one for the US. and these are the titles we suggest and I honestly can't even remember what they were, but they were not great titles.

[33:37] It was very much the feeling of, the saying that they have about how a camel is a horse designed by a committee that was like these titles. And I said,

[33:50] I'm sorry, I can't. I just can't believe that the best option is for us to have two different Titles. I feel like that's going to be really confusing.

[33:57] Cindy: I agree. I cannot stand when they do different titles. So I'm glad you spoke up.

[34:02] Laura: No, I know. 

[34:04] And so the issue was I was flying out to the States on Monday, and they were gonna film me saying stuff with the title of the book.

[34:12] Cindy: Oh, so you had to have it set. Yeah. Okay.

[34:15] Laura: And so I said, can I

[34:19] send you a list of possible other titles and we could maybe have a further conversation about it? And they said, yeah, that sounds great, except you will not believe the conversations.

[34:31] Like, this has been going on for weeks.

[34:33] And we wanted to kind of save you from it by presenting you with. They were so sweet. We wanted to save you from the kind of turmoil by presenting you with just, like, the solution.

[34:43] And it hasn't worked out that way. It's been a disaster. And they sent me a document, and this is not an exaggeration. That was eight pages long of titles that they had all pitched to each other, and one side or the other had 

[34:56] Rejected it.

[34:57] Cindy: Oh, my gosh, it was insanity.

[35:00] Laura: It was so funny. And some of these titles were absolutely bonkers because you could almost see the kind of desperation as it was going on and on and on that they could not hit on the right title for this book.

[35:13] And so over the weekend, I sat down and I wrote a list of, I think, eight titles,

[35:20] suggestions, and sent it to them. And I said, here are some suggestions that aren't on the list that you sent me. I think any of these could work.

[35:29] But obviously I get that you guys have, like, a lot of specific needs,

[35:35] so, maybe we can revisit. And then I immediately got this email back that, you could feel the relief in the email, it was so funny because they were like.

[35:45] We looked at the list, both our teams independently, and immediately said, Let's Make a Scene is the perfect title. We do not need to discuss this further.

[35:54] And it was like everyone kind of exhaled. And then it was so funny because I was in the air on my way to New York. And I then had to film this stuff where I was saying the title of the book, and my sweet editor, Mel was,

[36:09] like, standing behind the camera with the new title written in huge letters on a piece of paper because.

[36:17] Because it had changed so many times.

[36:19] Cindy: Like, just in case she Forgets what the 10th title of this book is,

[36:24] I don't blame you. That is hysterical. And I just will tell you, I already said it once, but I will say it again over and over, the two titles just does not work in this day and age.

[36:34] Maybe years and years ago when you didn't have the Internet and people weren't seeing stuff all over the world, it was an easier thing to do. But it is so darn confusing when that happens these days.

[36:44] Laura: Well, people think it's another book, right? So this happens all the time. This has even started happening for me now where a little bit with the translated editions of Under Your Spell in some languages, understandably, Under Your Spell as a phrase, doesn't work for them.

[37:00] So in most cases they've reverted to my original working title for the book, which was Three Wishes and a Curse. And so I will sometimes get messages from people saying,

[37:14] oh,

[37:15] is Under Your Spell being published in this language? And I will say it already has been,

[37:21] but it's called something different and there's that. So that confusion is there even in that situation. So I knew it would be so tricky having something in the US and in the UK with a different title that people would think there were two different books.

[37:37] But I also think that that story is such an insight into how complicated the actual making of a book is and the way a book gets put together and published, that there are so many moving parts and there are so many people who are working really hard on every individual element of the book as a whole package.

[37:59] And that can actually be quite tricky because when there are so many people involved, there are obviously a lot of conflicting needs and wants from,

[38:08] the way that a book looks, the way that a title sounds, the way a synopsis is being presented. All of these things are managed to such a meticulous degree that you wouldn't believe how much goes into them.

[38:21] Cindy: I think that's right. And I also find it mind boggling sometimes that you can be that far down the road and so many people have signed off on it and then one person can hiccup it like that.

[38:32] Laura: Yeah, well, exactly. And I mean, I suppose for me, I see all of this from the perspective of the writer, which is almost the weirdest position to be in because you,

[38:44] for so long that a book is just you sitting in front of a computer or a notebook or, like washing your hair, doing the shopping, wherever. And that book is happening in your head.

[38:54] And so then when it becomes a kind of object that has to be handled by people who really know what they're doing in these really specific small areas,

[39:08] it's hard as a writer often to let go of stuff like that. Sometimes I feel like,

[39:13] like a sort of control freak and I want to be the one who does it, I want to be my own publicist and my own marketer and I want to design the cover. And, you know, that's kind of ego driven, I suppose you have to find a way to let go of that because the book that you've made isn't just yours anymore.

[39:31] It belongs to this whole team. And ultimately you end up being so, so thankful for that. But it is a weird transition.

[39:38] Cindy: Well, you've put your heart and soul into it and it is yours and has your name on it very prominently. So I can see where you would feel like I want this to reflect what I think it is.

[39:49] Laura: Yeah, I think that's true. I think that's right. That it's such a personal thing. It's something that is. Really makes you very vulnerable and you're kind of putting that into someone else's hands.

[40:03] So that side of it is always difficult. That's for sure.

[40:08] Cindy: For sure. Well, before we wrap up, Laura, what have you read recently that you really liked?

[40:12] Laura: Oh, so much good stuff.

[40:15] So I recently, talking about rereads. I recently reread the Slowest Burn by Sarah Chamberlain. I'm not sure if you've read that. It came out last year.

[40:25] It's a really gorgeous romance about a ghost writer who writes recipe books and the kind of celebrity chef that she's writing the book with.

[40:36] It's so delightful. It's really actually got a very sweet deeply emotional core and I really enjoyed it. And her next book, Love Walked In, is coming out this year, I think.

[40:49] So I was really excited to kind of go back and reread that.

[40:53] I just finished reading Problematic Summer Romance by Ali Hazelwood,

[40:58] which I told myself I was going to save until after I had finished the book that I'm writing at the moment. And I couldn't, I couldn't wait. I loved it so much.

[41:07] I find her books,

[41:09] everything that I was talking about earlier, just so comforting and escapist and so much fun. Really delightful. I think her sense of humour and my sense of humour are the same.

[41:21] So when you find someone whose humor gels with yours as a writer, I think that

[41:26] For me, that's a real gift.

[41:28] I just finished that and I loved it.

[41:31] Cindy: My daughter loves her books so much.

[41:33] Laura: I love her book so much. And

[41:36] I really, really, really loved Bride, which was her vampirey book she released. And I really enjoy that that's happening more and more now that writers are kind of jumping around in terms of genre fiction.

[41:51] But what I liked about that book was at the core,

[41:54] you could still tell it was a kind of Ali Hazelwood book. So it didn't feel like, oh, this is written by a different writer because it's a slightly different genre.

[42:02] It felt like all the things that I loved about her romance novels she brought into this kind of vampire novel. And I really enjoyed that. And I was really interested in that as a writer, the way that that worked.

[42:14] Cindy: I think it's very interesting how many authors are writing across genres now or writing cross genre books. Both are fascinating to me.

[42:22] Laura: Yeah, for sure. I mean I definitely know that I have a witchy book waiting in me to get out.

[42:27] So it's exciting for me to see that readers are happy to move around with writers like that, because I think that can be something that's quite scary as a writer, if you feel that you've written something that people enjoy and then it's kind of like

[42:43] Are you wedded to that?

[42:45] For me, it was nice.

[42:46] My young adult literature is, you know, we talked about this last time. My young adult literature is historical fiction.

[42:52] So I did feel a little like that about moving into writing contemporary fiction,

[42:59] whether that would be received by fans of my historical fiction in a positive way. But it absolutely was. And I think maybe what I was saying about Ali's books is the same for me, where I feel like there's always a kind of core of my novels, 

[43:18] Whether it's a middle grade novel, whether it's historical, whether it's contemporary,

[43:22] whether it's young adult, whether it's adult. There's a kind of core of humour and style that is across all of them. I feel like you can tell even though the books are very different, that they are written by the same person, that they have the same DNA.

[43:37] And that's important to me.

[43:39] Cindy: I think that's right. And I also think some of it is expectations.

[43:43] If the marketing indicates that the author's going in a different direction, then the reader will know. There have been times when I feel like there have been missteps and maybe somebody has written a new book vastly different than their old book, but there was no indication that it was going to have gone in a totally different direction.

[43:57] And that doesn't work as well. But I think publishers have gotten more savvy about that.

[44:00] Laura: Yeah, I think it is maybe that. That more recently it does feel like you can kind of prove that readers are happy to follow a writer around on whatever mad adventure they decide to go on,

[44:13] which is really liberating and really lovely. As a writer to feel that. I certainly feel like I'm really lucky with my readers who are honestly so kind, and so supportive and sweet to me.

[44:28] And I have readers who, especially in the UK, I have readers who have been reading me for 8, 10 years, whatever. And I have readers who have grown up reading me, which is weird and magic.

[44:40] I have readers who now read my adult books, who read my middle grade books. And so it's really lovely to feel,

[44:50] as a writer that you have that group of people who will go with you 

[44:56] wherever your imagination is excited to go, they're excited to go with you.

[45:01] Cindy: Yes, that definitely has to feel very good. But it's because you write such wonderful books.

[45:05] Laura: Oh, wow. Thank you very much.

[45:09] Cindy: Well, Laura, I am so glad you came back on my show. I love chatting with you and this was just wonderful.

[45:15] Laura: Thank you so much. It's always such a joy. And, you know, I'll just have to keep writing books so that I can keep coming back.

[45:22] Cindy: Exactly. I'm already ready for the next one.

[45:25] Laura: Me too.

[45:28] Cindy: Thank you so much for listening to my podcast. I would love to connect with you on Instagram or Facebook where you can find me at Thoughts from a Page.

[45:36] If you enjoy the show and have a moment to rate it or subscribe to it, wherever you listen to your podcasts, I would really appreciate it. It makes a huge difference.

[45:44] And please tell all of your friends about Thoughts from a Page. Word of mouth does wonders to help the show grow.

[45:50] The book discussed in this episode can be purchased at my Bookshop storefront and the link is in the show notes. I hope you'll tune in next time.